The esteemed legacy of guitar-based Texas blues, built on the foundation of such legendary players as Blind Lemon Jefferson, T-Bone Walker, Lightnin’ Hopkins and Albert Collins, flows through the playing of Jimmie Vaughan. In his work with the Fabulous Thunderbirds, his late brother Stevie Ray Vaughan, and now as a solo artist, Jimmie Vaughan has always valued the six-string aesthetics of tone, feeling and craft over speed and flash. It’s a style born out of Vaughan’s devastating rhythm playing, which has served as a guidepost for both his soulful lead-guitar work and subtle vocals.
Throughout his career, Vaughan has always loved and paid homage to Louisiana music. The Fabulous Thunderbirds consistently mined the New Orleans and bayou songbooks during Vaughan’s tenure, and in his solo career Vaughan has been collaborating regularly with Dr. John. Dallas native Vaughan follows up his acclaimed 1994 solo debut Strange Pleasure with his brand-new Epic CD Out There, due in stores June 9.
Out There sounds like a natural extension and progression of Strange Pleasure, in that you’ve got the organ, horns, male back-up singers, and your vocals and guitar licks in the mix. It sounds to me like anyone who’s heard your first record or seen you perform since you’ve gone solo could listen to five seconds of the new record and immediately say, that’s Jimmie Vaughan. Do you feel like you’ve reached that place where you’ve found your own unique sound?
Well, I’m still trying to find my way. I do feel like I’m developing my sound. I don’t really know if I have 100 percent my own sound, because I’ve learned so much from so many guys, and it gets into my sound. These days, I don’t think anybody sounds like that. I am having a lot of fun though, so I think it is coming along, but I hate to say yes 100 % (laughs).
I thought your cover of Johnny “Guitar” Watson’s “Motorhead Baby” was a perfect choice. I see some parallels between the two of you; he was raised on the sounds of Gatemouth and T-Bone Walker, but as his career progressed he played everything: funk, soul, ballads…
He’s definitely one of my favorites. I use guys like Johnny “Guitar” Watson as my examples. I’m just trying to do my version, because one of these days…it’s amazing when you hear B.B. King, it sounds like B.B. King (laughs). And you hear other guys and say, that sounds like that guy. So if I get a turn I want it to sound like me. I’m workin’ on it. It does help that I’m trying to write my own songs. I just sort of have my version of it. I hear this stuff in my head, and as long as I try and put that down, that’s the way it comes out.
You recorded some of the tracks for Out There here in New Orleans at Kingsway Studio. Were you looking for a particular New Orleans vibe on those tracks?
I just love New Orleans. It’s a very inspiring place to play. That’s the best thing with a studio. Instead of just going down the street from your house, that’s all good, but I like going to New Orleans or L.A., places that have history. I sort of draw on that story, and it helps me to feel good. It’s hard to walk around New Orleans and not be inspired musically.
It’s great to hear Dr. John on Out There (the Dr. plays and co-wrote “Lost In You”). He played on Strange Pleasure and the Tribute to Stevie Ray [Vaughan], and you two seem to be becoming musical soulmates and close friends. How did you two first hook up, and how is it working with him?
I tried to think of that the other day, and I can’t remember where it is the first time I saw him. You can probably chalk that up to drinkin’. Of course I’d known about him for a long time. I’d say about ten years ago around Jazz Fest time or maybe at Tipitina’s, all of a sudden it just seemed like we started playing a lot more shows together. He’d be on the same bill with The T-Birds. We just got to talking, and as soon as I got a chance to make my own record, the first guy I called was Dr. John: ‘Can you? Will you? Anything?’ (laughs). He inspired me to go off on my own tangent. And we can really talk, too. I like to talk to him about music. He’s real encouraging. He’s definitely one of the greatest musicians I’ve ever had a chance to play with.
On the instrumental “Ironic Twist,” you’ve got this Bill Doggett meets Jr. Walker meets Jimmie Vaughan thing happening. Do you like organ-trio stuff?
That’s exactly my favorite stuff. I don’t usually say my favorite stuff, because tomorrow it might be something different. But I always wanted to play with an organ trio, where it was the B-3 hittin’ the bass. I started looking for a guy like that when I got my own thing together, and I ran into Bill Willis, and he was the guy. I’ve had the pleasure of playing with him ever since. Actually, we’re trying to get together and do a solo record with him. He has a lot of ballads and almost like show tunes, but when he does ‘em they sound very, very bluesy.
Talk about a record that’s overdue and a guy that’s got a history.
Yeah, he’s a bass player too. That’s why he’s so good on the organ. He learned how to play the organ from Bill Doggett, because he was the house bass player at King Records.
He’s on Freddie King’s original version of “Hideaway.”
Yeah, and a lot more stuff, like “Dedicated to the One I Love” by the 5 Royales. He was the bass player for like six or seven years at the studio. So he actually learned how to play the organ standing behind Bill Doggett. You ought to do a story on him. He’s got a lot of good stories too. That and with George Rains, playing with those two guys, they’re the greatest. I always think of it like, you know when you go to a carnival or a playground and you see a merry-go-round, the idea is you’ve got to get going and jump on and ride.
Hence the name “The Tilt-A-Whirl Band.”
Yeah, and the “Ironic Twist” is the latest installment.
The last instrumental acoustic track on Out There, “Little Sun, Big Son,” much like the title track to Strange Pleasure, has an almost haunting dream-like quality to it. Where are those pieces coming from?
I don’t know. I have a couple of archtop guitars that I play all the time when I’m home, and I figured out that, a lot of the songs that I write, I write ‘em in that style, songs for one guy, because I like that style. You don’t really hear it anymore, there’s only a few guys that do it. I’ll sit around and play songs, any song. I’ll try and play it with that thumbpicking thing where the actual guy is the drum and the bass.
Is that your way of balancing your electric band playing with your love for solo acoustic guys like Lightnin’ Hopkins and Lil’ Son Jackson?
First of all, I’m a real fan of it. All the stuff I do, I do it because that’s what I want to hear. I’m trying to play what I want to hear and trying to say what I hear in my head. Music to me is totally meant to be enjoyed, so I’m totally selfish in that I play that stuff because it’s what I love. I’d like to think that I play in a Gulf Coast style — Texas, Louisiana — and country Mississippi blues too, because I grew up in Arkansas, and went to first grade in Jackson, Mississippi. I never lived in New Orleans, but I lived in Baton Rouge a little bit. My dad moved around a lot.
Was that when you first got turned on to those shades of Louisiana music — Gulf Coast R&B, swamp pop, zydeco, etc.?
When I was a kid, I just remember [hearing] that stuff. I didn’t know the difference between that, and country. It was just on the radio, and around town, and on the corner, and in record shops. I remember when I was a kid knowing that sound before I learned how to play. I can remember it had so much feeling.
Rockin’ Sidney played on Family Style, and the T-Birds played some of Sidney’s tunes. You were just here in April for Sidney’s funeral. How did you first hook up with him?
Mike Buck, the drummer for us at the time, bought all these 45s of Rockin’ Sidney. They were from the mid-50′s, I guess, some of his first stuff. “You Ain’t Nothin’ But Fine, Fine, Fine,” “Tell Me,” all that stuff. And the T-Birds, we just ate that stuff up. It was like that stuff was just custom-made for us. We just did every Sidney song we could find. We were total maniacs about Rockin’ Sidney. And then about that time he came out with “Toot Toot,” or a few years before, we started playing Jazz Fest, so that’s where we met each other. When he came out with “Toot Toot,” we didn’t even know he was still around. It was like, ‘Wow, Rockin’ Sidney!’ It was another situation of being in a band and wanting to be like him, you know what I mean?
Besides the Gulf Coast sound and all the Texas and Chicago players you love, on your T-Birds stuff, to my ears one of the biggest inspirations I hear is the whole Excello sound, and not just Slim Harpo, but Lonesome Sundown and the whole Excello roster.
That’s what I loved, and that’s why I wanted to really push for it to begin with. Kim [Wilson, Fabulous Thunderbirds' vocalist and harmonica player] was really into the Chicago blues, and I loved it too…we did Little Walter, we did all that stuff. He was just crazy about all that. I sort of pushed the Louisiana stuff, plus Keith Ferguson (late Fabulous Thunderbirds bassist) and Mike Buck, everybody had all those records.
One of your Jazz Fest gigs with the T-Birds has become part of Jazz Fest legend: the Riverboat gig in 1987 where you were the house band and got to pick your playing partners.
You’ve got to thank Quint Davis on that one. Quint came to Austin, I’ll never forget it, and he said, ‘Let’s go out to eat.’ So we all went out, the whole band. And we sat there all night and drank and talked. And he said, ‘Okay, I want you all to do a gig. I want you to have all your influences, whoever you want. Who do you want to play with? Anybody. We’re gonna do it.’ So we said, ‘Rockin’ Sidney, Dr. John, Katie Webster, Lazy Lester,’ we just started namin’ ‘em off. We were able to get everybody we wanted.
Did it live up to all your expectations?
It was amazing. I remember even John Fogerty was there in the audience. It was a great night. We left at about dark, and came back, and I think we got off the boat at about four in the morning. Bonnie Raitt was there, John Lee Hooker, Duke Robillard.
One of my colleagues and friends here, Jeff Hannusch, mentioned to me this week that you were taking Hawaiian guitar lessons for a while. Do you still do that, or play around with other string instruments like a lap steel or mandolin?
I really tried to play the steel guitar for several years. I really got into it, and went and took some lessons, and it’s really a different instrument. It’s hard. You have to start with it. I’m not saying I’ll never play it again, but it also made me decide, ‘What are you doin’? You’re tryin’ to play this, and tryin’ to play that, why don’t you play the guitar? That’s what you’re supposed to be playin” (laughs). So I’ve been tryin’ to catch up on the guitar.
Last time that we spoke after Strange Pleasure came out, I asked your opinion on why Texas produces so many great guitar players, and you joked that there wasn’t much else to do in Texas, except maybe get in fights and “get your ass kicked.” When you started playing the guitar, did you envision it as a ticket out, to paraphrase Jimmy Reed, to the bright lights and big city? Did it hold that kind of attraction for you?
Absolutely. I mean, it’s everything to me. First of all, I broke my collarbone tryin’ to play football; I got tackled. And this friend of my dad’s gave me a guitar, and I started playin’ right away. I’ve been playin’ ever since. It’s a way to leave…I wanted to run away from home. It worked. It was my ticket out. I wanted a car, and wanted this, and wanted that, and that was the way I did it. It’s not very good advice for kids (laughs).
We’ll put in a disclaimer: don’t try this at home.
Absolutely (laughs). Seriously, the guitar, and music, and especially blues, has done everything for me. It’s taken me around the world. I can’t tell you all that it’s done for me, now that I look back on it.
Looking back, there are four entities: The T-Birds, Stevie Ray, Roomful of Blues, and Robert Cray, who are really credited with sparking the blues renaissance as we know it today. Did you have any sense of the effect that you guys were having back then, or were you just keeping your head down and playing?
We weren’t thinking about anything like that. We were all in it just for havin’ a good time. We had good gigs really playing just the coolest stuff you could imagine. We were goin’ around and gettin’ to meet all our heroes. We were serious about the music, but we were just tryin’ to have fun. And we had plenty.
Was it a rollercoaster ride when Tuff Enuff took off, and suddenly you’re on MTV and all over the place? Was that overwhelming at times?
No, it didn’t seem any different than the rest. The only thing that was overwhelming was that you had so many damn gigs that we couldn’t really keep up with ‘em. We got really wore down, just from trying to keep up, because it’s hard to say no. Somebody calls you up and says, ‘Well, we’ve got a gig here for 20,000 bucks if you can be here in Florida tomorrow.’ And we’d go, ‘We’re in L.A. tonight, we can’t possibly get over there.’ They’d say, ‘If you take a red-eye you can make it.’ And that was what happened. We gave it a hell of a good shot, and played a lot of gigs.
I imagine being on the road for so long was the primary reason you decided to leave the T-Birds.
Yeah, but I had problems. I got to where I was drinkin’ way too much. I was drinkin’ all the time. It was part being worn down from just too much, and partly just wantin’ to go home, sayin’, ‘I’ve had enough. Let me rest.’ And it was part me just being tired of it and being bored and wanting to do something new. Because, how many times can you do the same material, you know? It gets old. And I get bored real quick. Some if it was personal…it was a little bit of everything. But I had a great time. I wouldn’t trade that for anything, my time being with the T-Birds. [For a powerful reminder of the original T-Birds' power, check out Different Tacos (Country-Town Music), a recently issued CD of previously unreleased live tracks and studio out-takes. For info, call 310-544-7970.]
Do you get the occasional reunion offer to play with the band or Kim again?
Yeah, yeah, we do. But it’s not like they’re calling up and beatin’ down the doors.
Is that something you would consider if the time was right?
Oh, sure, if the time was right. But I can speak for myself and probably a little bit for Kim in that we’re both still having a good time. For me, this is a real challenge. It’s much more expressive for me than the T-Birds. You know, to come up with the songs, then the band, and I can pick what I want to do.
Since you’ve gone solo, it seems to me you’re playing with a capo much more.
Yeah. I started doin’ that on the T-Birds stuff, and I’ve just started doin’ it more and more and more, because the T-Birds used to play in E all the time, because of the harmonica. And it’s the same thing as playing in E, using that clamp.
Do you approach your playing differently using the capo, or do you just love the sound?
I love the sound of it, and again, I hear that Guitar Slim played that way, I hear that Johnny Watson played that way, a lot of guys from around the Gulf Coast played that way. And it’s like playing in E, you’ve got all the lower strings. Albert Collins played that way, although he had his own tuning and he was totally different from the rest of us. It’s sort of a traditional way of playing, you know. I just love it, and the more I do it, the better I like it.
It’s funny you brought up the key of E. Ronnie Earl told me once in an interview, “Jimmie Vaughan owns the key of E.” Does that kind of respect from your peers mean as much, or more to you, as the compliments from your fans?
(Softly) Yeah, yeah. It’s great; I enjoy it. But you know, I’m still trying to get there. I don’t know if you ever get there on guitar. So I’m still learning, still experimenting, and still searching. I really do enjoy it.
You’re very involved in Stevie’s estate, and making sure that his records that come out now — The Sky is Crying, the Tribute album, the Live at Carnegie Hallalbum — are done right. Is that therapeutic for you, and a way to maybe still be looking out for him?
Yeah. If I don’t do it, I don’t know who’s going to do it. The thing I have, that the other people don’t have, is I know the music side of him. I know what he liked, and why he liked it, and what he didn’t like, stuff like that. That’s exactly the way I feel about it, that I’m looking out for him. Because I know what they did with Hendrix –
That’s what made me think about it. The Hendrix catalog has always been a mess.
Another good example is the Hank Williams records you see with the electric bass dubbed on it. That’s the kind of stuff I’d like to keep from happening.
There’s guys out there now, Corey Stevens and Kenny Wayne Shepherd being the first ones that come to mind, who’ve built their careers using Stevie’s sound. And in your case, there’s a band out now, The Radio Kings, who it’s impossible to listen to and not hear the influence of you and the T-Birds. Do you have any feelings about that?
Well, the only thing I can say to that is, now we know how B.B. King must feel, and Gatemouth Brown (laughs).
One of the last times I saw you was in March in Austin for your show outdoors in Waterloo Park, and 15,000 people showed up. That must be incredibly validating, to know that you are so embraced in your own backyard.
I’ve got the greatest job in the world (laughs). Sometimes I just can’t believe it. I mean, I get to play the guitar. It took me a while to grow up and appreciate that. My favorite guitars to play, Fenders, they give them to me now.
You’ve got your own Tex-Mex Stratocaster model named after you now.
Yeah, and I would have never dreamed that in a million years. When you first start looking through the catalogs when you’re a kid, and you’re looking at the guys in the catalog going, ‘Wow.’ To me, the Fender catalog was the most amazing thing in the world. And it is, so it’s a real thrill. I just want to keep making records, and keep trying to get better, and keep workin’ because I’m havin’ a ball. I feel like I’m just getting started again.
